Hydro guy seeks organic advice

[pk_boosted2]

So any product that has even 1 trace element in it even if it makes up less than 1% is synthetic then the mix is no longer organic even though 99% of the rest of the mix is all organic.

Theres a reason OMRI gives a 15% window of additional room for synthetics to be used, because some things a plant needs to be put into formulation into a bottle needs to be derived from a lab made element in order to bind and become suspended, while still being considered organic.

Whatever im done BOL

 

[Vnsmkr]

Thats not the same!!

Go back to your world Pk boosted as this is obviously out of your realm and too complicated for you.

Done with this. Have a nice day

 

[pk_boosted2]

Good u shud be done because u dont make sense.

Go tell kyle kushman his line of nutrients isnt organic bcuz he has 5% synthetics and then tell em using bottle organic nutrients is growing organics either bcuz he isnt using amended soils lol

Lemme know his response

 

[pk_boosted2]

Thats not the same!!

Go back to your world Pk boosted as this is obviously out of your realm and too complicated for you.

Done with this. Have a nice day

Whats not the same?

Tellin me that if i have 1 ingredient in my nutrient solution that makes up less than 1% of the solution that is 99% organic will disqualify the product from being organic, and for that reason it cant be partially synthetic or partially organic either, you said its one or the other. So obviously this is out if your realm of comprehension.

Partially: definition
Only in part, to a limited extent
Ex. GH General Organics is a nutrient formula comprised of 97% organically based all natural veganic nutrients, which partially include a small amount of synthetic nutrients that compromise less than 3% of the nutrient solution.

Example:
This is my new product called "Org-grow". It is derived primarily from vegetables and fish by products. The makeup of this bottle consists of 97% organic/veganic elements with a small amount of synthetic nitrogen which is readily available to your plants. This nitrate source is derived from a lab and is the only element in my nutrient solution in the grow formula that is a synthetic byproduct, but it only makes up less than 3% of the formula.

Therefore these nutrients I comprised are made of the finest quality organic/veganic sources and are used in conjuction and suspended for readily available sources for optimum plant uptake. Since this solution is made of both organic/veganic and a small amount of synthetic sources it is "partially"
(the nutrient solution is made up of a limited amount of the solution)
Synthetics; while the majority of micro and macro nutrients are derived from sources which are 100% organic and veganic totaling 97% of the solutions make up.

HOWEVER IN ACCORDANCE TO THE USDA AND OMRI GUIDELINES: a nutrient solution containing 85%> is still considered to be ORGANIC..

If you call Botanicare or Roots Organics and ask them what they consider their Pure Blend Pro formula or u call Roots and ask them about the Soul synthetics nutrient line. They will both tell u that their formulas are primarily organic but comprised of roughly 10-15% synthetic sources of nutrients that are used to increase your yields without sacrificing your quality. And are considered to be partially snythetic but based on an organic platform.

What so hard to understand about this? U slow my dude?

 

[st0wandgrow]

He also doesnt use super soils and uses either bio-canna and a mix of nature nectar products and humboldt natural or he uses his new veganic line the vega matrix and tell him he isnt growing organically bcuz he isnt using super soils and amendments, and call him a liar and tell him he doesnt know what organic growing is because he is using organic bottled nutrients.

And u let me know what his response is to u. Ok? Sounds good ill be waiting this will be epic

Kyle Kushman uses his bottles because he is trying to promote his brand in order to make $$$. Period

 

[Kush Killington]

@Blue brother - jus buy the quick bag of soil. If yu only tryna run 1 test plant, no need to over complicate.
Organic growing is like any other. The difference being yur feeding the medium instead of the plant. And all that means is water with unchlorinated water and reinnoculate yur medium every 2-4 weeks.
Yu don need a "veg" or "bloom" soil mix. As long as there's enugh of whatever the plant needs, itll take it. Somethin like "5-5-5" will work from seed to harvest. No need for nutes either jus remove the top inch? of soil and replace with fresh soil.
Id invest in some ewc too. Add some to your soil mix and make teas from it to reinnoculate yur soil. Bam.

@pk_boosted2 - its coo bro.
Jus look at the definition of organic - derived from living matter. Any part synthetic goes against it by definition. So if its partially synthetic, is synthetic. If its partially organic, its synthetic.

...damn im feeding at this point. This isnt even yur thread bro >.>

Sir KK

 

[pk_boosted2]

Kyle Kushman uses his bottles because he is trying to promote his brand in order to make $$$. Period

Bro before he had his nutrient line all he ever ran was BIO CANNA and NATURES NECTAR which are BOTTLED NUTRIENTS!!

Hes a good friend of mine and one of my main dudes best friends, I think I would know better than most considering we know each other lmao. Stop trying to lie about shit. He does nothing but organic and veganic growing been focusing on it and crafting it for decade +. He swears by BIO CANNA and will tell anyone if they dont use his line that bio canna is the shit period.

He dont do super soils or any of these recycled mediums and organics, he hand waters and hand feeds everytime using promix primarily.

U can go on his site and ask him yourself. And please tell him exactly what u trying to tell me. That using bottles organic nutrients isn't growing organically and the only way to grow organics is with super soils, rols, and tlo. And lemme know what he has to say.

He is by far one of the most open, stand up dudes u will ever meet or talk to in this industry. Hes open to speak with anyone about anything and I guarantee that if u say this to him he will respond politely and break everything down for you 100%. Ik not gonna argue because u guys dont know who I am but u obviously wouldnt try disrespectin Kyle if he came on here and tried to speak to him like that, and he will tell you THE EXACT SAME THING IM SAYING I KNOW FOR A FACT.

He taught me almost everything I know about growing and weve gone back and forth many a times about techniques and diff feedings and all the usual arguments and nay sayers etc.. Lemme know what he has to say please lol ill be waiting

 

[pk_boosted2]

@pk_boosted2 - its coo bro.
Jus look at the definition of organic - derived from living matter. Any part synthetic goes against it by definition. So if its partially synthetic, is synthetic. If its partially organic, its synthetic.

...damn im feeding at this point. This isnt even yur thread bro >.>

Sir KK[/QUOTE]

This is absolutely not true. Sorry man some things using bottled nutrients are gonna have some elements in it that are synthetic and okay to use in conjunction w organics.

So ur gonna tell me that the US DEPT OF AGRICULTURE and OMRI can certify organic nutrients and products that have less than 15% synthetics, BUT they are just synthetics and not organics? Come on man ur just arguing to argue.

These are divisions of our government that certify organic products for health purposes for growing fruits, veg, and consumable products by individuals and for environmental saftey reasons but u can say that because they have a small fraction of synthetics then they can no longer be organic when the base and majority of everything included is derived from natural organic materials? Thats absurd man. It really is ludacris.

 

[pk_boosted2]

I can even do one better and give u his cell phone number and u can tell him i told u to call him because u got a question anout organic bottled nutrients and them containing portions of synthetic salts and u wanna know why u can still consider that to be organics, u PM me and i give u his number call em yourself.

Im 100% confident ive explained same thing he will. Period.

 

[pk_boosted2]

THE USDA AND OMRI:
Have specific lists of non organic, synthetic additives that are exempt from being classified under the general provisions.
As long as the ingredients meet the requirements then they are still considered and for its purposes allowed under such provisions and guidelines which follow the standards of being organic.

When u know that most of the portions of these fertilizers that are "synthetic" are not actually synthetic at all. The process by which they are extracted uses synthetics
For example..
Most of the organic fertilizers that use "synthetics" is usually forms of amino acids which are produced by plants, animals, and organisms, (organics)
HOWEVER, THE PROCESS for which they are isolated and the chelating agents such as an ENZYME which are (synthetic) doesnt mean that the aminos are synthetic its the agent they used to extract it that is, therefore it gets an exemption.

You need to understand what part of the additives or processes are considered the synthetics. Every product in the bottle can be organic, BUT IF YOU USE AN EXTRACTION OR ISOLATION METHOD that uses a synthetic additive or process like eznymes than its considered synthetic but exempt but still included as partially synthetic even though it isnt. Maybe thats too hard for some to understand the way im explaining it but anyone can go onto the USDA OR OMRI WEBSITE and look up the exempt list and items as they sre classified by category.

People say they are growing organics using hydrated lime and lime sulfur BUT HYDRATED LIME FORMS OF DOLOMITE ARE SYNTHETIC

so what u went and added hydrated lime to your super soil as an amendment.. Then that cant be organic either because hydrated kime is synthetic

U get the points?? Ur always gonna have some small percent of something synthetic in ur grow its almost impossible not to. Even water thats been treated from ur water plant or r/o has traces of chemicals its treated with so ur adding synthetics to ur grow. Lol

 

[st0wandgrow]

Bro before he had his nutrient line all he ever ran was BIO CANNA and NATURES NECTAR which are BOTTLED NUTRIENTS!!

Hes a good friend of mine and one of my main dudes best friends, I think I would know better than most considering we know each other lmao. Stop trying to lie about shit. He does nothing but organic and veganic growing been focusing on it and crafting it for decade +. He swears by BIO CANNA and will tell anyone if they dont use his line that bio canna is the shit period.

He dont do super soils or any of these recycled mediums and organics, he hand waters and hand feeds everytime using promix primarily.

U can go on his site and ask him yourself. And please tell him exactly what u trying to tell me. That using bottles organic nutrients isn't growing organically and the only way to grow organics is with super soils, rols, and tlo. And lemme know what he has to say.

He is by far one of the most open, stand up dudes u will ever meet or talk to in this industry. Hes open to speak with anyone about anything and I guarantee that if u say this to him he will respond politely and break everything down for you 100%. Ik not gonna argue because u guys dont know who I am but u obviously wouldnt try disrespectin Kyle if he came on here and tried to speak to him like that, and he will tell you THE EXACT SAME THING IM SAYING I KNOW FOR A FACT.

He taught me almost everything I know about growing and weve gone back and forth many a times about techniques and diff feedings and all the usual arguments and nay sayers etc.. Lemme know what he has to say please lol ill be waiting

What I'm disputing (and would say the same thing to Kyle or anyone else) is that using bottles is superior to an organically amended soil. Organic bottled nutrients are water soluble, and immediately plant available. Using bottles you are directly feeding the plant, completely forgoing the soil food web...... which is the very basis of organic growing. When you use these bottles you are using an organically *derived* nutrient, but you are not growing organically. Any means of growing where you do not rely upon the microbes in the soil to process, and deliver to the plant it's nutrients does not meet the definition of organics.

Kyle is yet another example of someone hijacking the word "organics" for financial gain.

 

[Blue brother]

Lol it's hard for me to chime in here as I've really no knowledge to share. I've read all posts and made the decision to buy an organic all purpose soil and transplant to a large pot a couple weeks before flower so the plant had all the nutrients it needs for its cycle. The seeds will probably be started in a light organic mix.

Thanks for your help guys

 

[95'ZR1]

@Blue brother for a few bucks it would go a LONG way if you get the organicare PURE 5-5-5 plus you can use it in your hydro if you decide to stop organic growing.

 

[hyroot]

fyi canna is another example of a company paying big bucks for an omri label and bio canna is not organic and not vegan and was banned from California 2 -3 years ago. Matt rize even talks about it in his vegan thread. Kyle kushman knows his his line is not organic. Just from my personal experience talking to him. His team of chemists designed the nutes. He just slapped his name on it. He is avid about vegan growing not so much organic. Chems are still vegan. Just not organic.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Good u shud be done because u dont make sense.

Go tell kyle kushman his line of nutrients isnt organic bcuz he has 5% synthetics and then tell em using bottle organic nutrients is growing organics either bcuz he isnt using amended soils lol

Lemme know his response

you guys need to just agree to have different growing techniques... I mean do you both like the same foods? Same type of women? Same cars?
Life is waaay too short to get your blood pressure up about an internet disagreement.
But keep this in mind. For most organic growers it's not just growing pot naturally, it's a philosophy, so it's sorta like going on a Christian forum arguing the differences between Catholicism and Protestants. sure the core beliefs are similar, but it's not the same, and to the degree where thousands and thousands of people have died
I've read this entire thread, and it's eerily similar to many many threads I've read before.
Important to realize it's a preference.
You aren't going to convince anyone differently.
Some will agree with you, some won't but it really is a test of futility to argue about it.
But carry on, if you'd like.

 

[genuity]

Lol it's hard for me to chime in here as I've really no knowledge to share. I've read all posts and made the decision to buy an organic all purpose soil and transplant to a large pot a couple weeks before flower so the plant had all the nutrients it needs for its cycle. The seeds will probably be started in a light organic mix.

Thanks for your help guys

Sucks you could not just get a honest answer......

If FFOF is what you can get,and if you're not planning on vegging very long,,,,you can get away with just water,during that grow...

 

[st0wandgrow]

you guys need to just agree to have different growing techniques... I mean do you both like the same foods? Same type of women? Same cars?
Life is waaay too short to get your blood pressure up about an internet disagreement.
But keep this in mind. For most organic growers it's not just growing pot naturally, it's a philosophy, so it's sorta like going on a Christian forum arguing the differences between Catholicism and Protestants. sure the core beliefs are similar, but it's not the same, and to the degree where thousands and thousands of people have died
I've read this entire thread, and it's eerily similar to many many threads I've read before.
Important to realize it's a preference.
You aren't going to convince anyone differently.
Some will agree with you, some won't but it really is a test of futility to argue about it.
But carry on, if you'd like.

Yeah, you're right..... and I normally wouldn't engage in the dick measuring but this pk guy is a special kind of toolbox.

Check out this train wreck that pk helped author when you have 10 hours to kill. lol

https://www.rollitup.org/t/giving-defoliation-during-flower-a-try.839655/


.

 

[st0wandgrow]

Lol it's hard for me to chime in here as I've really no knowledge to share. I've read all posts and made the decision to buy an organic all purpose soil and transplant to a large pot a couple weeks before flower so the plant had all the nutrients it needs for its cycle. The seeds will probably be started in a light organic mix.

Thanks for your help guys

Hey man, sorry about helping to derail your thread.

If you already bought the soil, an easy way to go about this would be to pick up a few different dry amendments, or an all purpose one like Espoma Garden Tone. If you can find small bags of kelp meal, alfalfa meal, neem seed meal, and crab shell meal you could use those too as either a top dress in early-mid flower, or mix it right in to the soil before you plug your plant in there.

Best of luck

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Yeah, you're right..... and I normally wouldn't engage in the dick measuring but this pk guy is a special kind of toolbox.

Check out this train wreck that pk helped author when you have 10 hours to kill. lol

https://www.rollitup.org/t/giving-defoliation-during-flower-a-try.839655/


.

ohhh man, no thanks on the defoliation thread, i'd rather sit here and singularly pluck each and every hair from my body and then take a isopropyl alcohol bath afterwards...
hah... ten hours to kill.... awesome.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Sucks you could not just get a honest answer......

If FFOF is what you can get,and if you're not planning on vegging very long,,,,you can get away with just water,during that grow...

in post number six FFOF was recommended, and in post ten I recommended vermifire.
We did answer it, and fairly fast too.